No.2
How do people even think without an internal monologue?
No.3
>>2Shapes, images, "gliding voice" (your train of thought isn't at the forefront), patterns, etc..
No.4
>>1Without internal monologue you are a hylic, a beast without soul just following through the motions reacting to stimuli, sorta like a fish but more than a dog or a chimp. Stuck in sentience limbo.
No.5
>>3Hmm, and what is the definition of internal monologue then?
No.6
>>5Thinking with your words.
No.7
>>2Yes. Some people can think in other senses such as smell or images/sight, and I've heard of some people being able to think in terms of "action". Or a combination of the above.
>>4I am not necessarily opposed to this. However, if I find I dislike it during the process I can just stop and revert the process. Assuming this is even possible
No.8
>>7If you have reached internal sentience the only way to stop it and still be living its severe brain damage.
No.9
>>7This is all very confusing to me. How do you think in terms of smell? I can recall some smells, but how does one use that to think?
No.10
>>9>How do you think in terms of smell?That part was just me being retarded again and saying the wrong shit. But the images and action part are ways people without Internal Monologues think
>>8I wouldn't consider different modes of thinking as losing sentience, but you may be right that this is impossible.
No.11
>>10Smoke a lot of Crack then
No.12
Why not just do lots of geometry problems? That ought to improve your visual thinking.
No.340
>>12I'm not just trying to improve my visual thinking, but rather to think only with it. Doing a lot of visual based problems might actually help with this tho, do you have any recommendations on where I can find a large amount of them?
I think I may have come up with an idea on how to train myself to think without my IM. About two days ago, I over exerted and exhausted myself. During this exhaustion, I was able to "occupy" my IM with "singing" the song that was stuck in my head. And while my IM was "occupied" I was able to think mostly visually.
I think if I make a routine out of doing a lot of visual based thinking, like
>>12 said, and pairing that with some restless nights I might be able to train my brain to get used to this mode of thinking.
No.341
>>340Proofs without Words? It's subtitle is even "Exercises in Visual Thinking".
No.342
I wonder if people who regularly write are more likely to have an internal monologue. And people who regularly draw think more often in terms of pictures. My hypothesis is that to write you have to verbalize your thoughts, and when done regularly, verbalizing becomes a habit. To draw you have to visualize your thoughts, and it could also become a habit. For writing one could regularly do "free writing" sessions, 10 minutes or more of non-stop writing, without correcting mistakes or editing whatsoever, just writing down anything that comes to mind, no matter how repetitive. Maybe it could work with drawing too? Just grab a pencil and some paper, set a timer, and draw (or rather, doodle) anything that comes to mind during that time frame?
No.343
>>342I personally don't write that much, and I have an internal monologue, but I have trouble visualizing things without having to concentrate a lot.
Maybe the thing is some people have an easier time visualizing things, but I wouldn't be able to say as to think solely in images. But I am not sure, just what I think/know of this. I could probably ask some people that draw as to their way of thinking.
No.344
We think with a particular language, because the communication between the Thing we want to see and talk about, its mediated by language, so if you don´t want to use a language as the mediator of your thoughts, go to another form of expression as it have been said before, drawings, geometry, sculpture, etc…
Personally as a musician, most part of the day I have a internal melody instead of the internal monologue, the melody is without any word, just sounds, that in the imagination takes forms depending on the melody that i´m evoking.
I´ve found out that we don´t need to think with words all day, silence is mostly recomended but actually imposible for the mind, that is like a river, and you can´t stop the flow of the water. So I recommend Annie Besant's book "Thought Power its control and culture".
Have a nice day!
No.347
I found two methods to test the way my thought works apart from passive introspection:
-Construct a regular thought, but cut it short. Then focus on the lingering thoughts.
-Speed up your thoughts until they resemble an unpredictable stream. Then observe the types of thoughts without individually observing them (stopping the stream).
The second one usually ends with some nasty image though.
So far I found, in addition to a note-like monologue, I have visualizations ranging from consciously detailed to fleeting association images. There is also a type of thought associated with rapid contraction/relaxation of different muscles, but I don't know its meaning yet.
No.348
You don't think with an internal monologue, it's just there to echo whatever your other modes of thinking are processing.
No.352
>>348That's for low(traditional) iq people only
No.353
>>2Some people totally think in objects/motion/colors. I think in spoken/written words. I can create images, smells and sounds but it takes more effort than just words.
No.354
>>348How do thoughts reach you?
No.355
>>342Interacting with other users on this image board in the silence of my home with only text is definitely not helping my visual thinking.
No.356
I used to never have an internal monologue, I thought "thinking" in movies was done that way just so other people could follow it easier. But don't romanticize it, thinking like that is a closed loop; when a thought is incommunicable it might as well not exist, just sitting there in your head.
I actually have the inverse problem now, where I try as hard as possible to think only in words, yet still catch myself completing a thought without them. You may be right that thinking in words is slower (maybe that's just a me problem) but it is the only kind of thinking that really matters.
No.358
So I have unintentionally made progress. I frequently don't get enough sleep and get overworked because of my schedule, so I get put in that weird trance-like state at the end of the day.
But the main thing is most of my classes this semester involve vectors. And on top of that I listen to a lot of chaotic and lyric heavy music when I do my homework, so I end up "occupying" my IM while I'm doing visual based problems.
I have started to notice that all thoughts come with some amount of visualization, whether I want it or not. Most of the time the images aren't in the best "detail" or logically related, though.
I was able to think of my relationships with other people in terms of vectors able today. It was weird.
No.359
>>354You are asking me how the consciousness works. We don't know. If we were thinking with internal monologue then that would mean that we were incapable of thinking before we developed language.
No.366
>>359The few People who have never properly learned a language are completely stunted developmentally. even people who only know sign language still primarily think in sign language, moving their hands in their mind.
your are problem onto something even if you didn't mean it
No.368
I've achieved this a couple times. Took acid and sat in the pitch black darkness of my room kinda just observing what would happen. The monologue stopped and I started realizing I was experiencing some kind've vibrational energy that took up all my senses. The more I focused on it, the more I could see it, hear it, feel it, touch it. Sometimes I'd get distracted and sent back to reality, but whenever I focused again, I'd be brought right back to that same vibration. It was always there. I'm convinced that it was real and can be brought on by extreme meditation.
One thing is for certain, there was zero internal monologue when I was in the presence of it all. Pure bliss. Listen to the silence
No.369
>>368Would you wish to live like that? Is the pure bliss not achiveable for you in the real world?
What would give you bliss as opposed to suffering(?)? Would a nap on your beloved wifes lap be equally blissiful?
Just interested.
No.371
I recently consulted the tarot while having an emotional breakdown. It revealed to me that thoughts directly contain emotions I picture them as network packets with an "emotion header". Think about killing someone you know and it will implicitly include how you imagine you would feel at that moment.
To reason calmly about a thought, I could consciously separate the associated emotion from the content, which was hard when following a train of thought, or override the emotion with something I wanted to feel instead.
I tried feeling happy and succeeded. The lack of effort made me want to kill myself. The more I learn about thought, the more I feel alienated from the substrate feeding my consciousness senses, memories and emotions. As a consequence solipsism creeps in.
No.372
To my understanding, the pure bliss is the real world. We just can't see it because of the filter of the ego and echo of the thoughts. Forgetting who you are for a time is a great way to realize just who really is glancing through your eyes.
The bliss I describe is within everyone. Awareness of this bliss, is not. Everything will be okay and all is well all the time forever. I'm not saying everyday is perfect or nothing bad ever happens, but doing your best to keep the bigger picture in the foreground is a path to that bliss that exists in you.
I don't have a wife, but the scenario you describe does sound quite blissful. Love is bliss. Love is never suffering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHZ5-uutUaI Here's a song for your time
No.373
>>372The true way to feel the internal bliss it to manifest it in the real world through your actions and shape your enviromnent to rrecieve it.
Stay strong brothers.